Liquid:Lye ratio for Hybrid soapmaking

[ChrissieM]

Hi Alan,
I tried to create a recipe using both NaH and Potash and want the liquid:lye ratio to be 5:1. It defaults to 3.5:1. Is there a way to bypass this ratio? I made a similar recipe in 2020 using the ration 5:1 with no problem. I can't do it anymore. I even tried editing the old recipe and save as a new recipe and it still defaults to 3.5:1.
Would appreciate if you can look into this and let me know. If there is a reason for the default, I'd be interested too.
Thanks
Chrissie

 

[Yooper]

I don’t have an answer as to why that is happening- but since that is a lot of water, I’m wondering why you use that much water?

 

[ChrissieM]

I am using hot process for this recipe that's why I need it to be 5:1. Should I tick hot process instead of hybrid? By hybrid, my understanding is it uses both potash and sodium hydroxide.

 

[ChrissieM]

I tried ticking off solid because it is still essentially solid although not hard, it still would not take 5:1 liquid:lye ratio. The soap is really neither solid nor liquid in their usual meaning. It is not liquid; solid but not hard.

 

[Yooper]

It’s not a hybrid soap, it’s solid but weird it won’t take a 5:1 ratio even though I’ve never heard of someone using that much water with lye. Does it still saponify well? That seems like a very diluted water:lye ratio.

 

[Yooper]

Hybrid soap means using a portion of both lyes, duel lye soap. It’s a hybrid that way. If it’s a cream soap or soft, it still should be checked as NaOH, if that’s the lye you are using.

Even when making liquid soaps hot process, I still use a 3:1 or 2.5:1 water:lye ratio, get it to trace, and then add more water after that. Do you still get an easy trace with 5:1?

 

[ChrissieM]

I have created the recipe using your calculator before. I just need to tweak it using different oils. Think shaving soap. It is not weird. It is part of my line for the last 8 years or so. Just trying to experiment another type of soap with paste consistency. Your calculator worked before until updates were made.

 

[ChrissieM]

i use 60:40 sodiumotash or thereabouts.

 

[Yooper]

I have created the recipe using your calculator before. I just need to tweak it using different oils. Think shaving soap. It is not weird. It is part of my line for the last 8 years or so. Just trying to experiment another type of soap with paste consistency. Your calculator worked before until updates were made.

I’m not questioning your recipe- it sounds great. I’m seriously wondering if the reason it won’t go above 3.5: 1 is for a chemical reaction reason. After the lye and water are added and the mixture is at trace is when I add additional liquids, and I’m wondering if that is why the calculator now ‘holds’ a max of 3.5. I do have the question in with the developer, but trying to figure how why a 5:1 works. Sorry to make it seem like I’m questioning you.

I know of at least one other calculator that has a similar maximum water amount so I’m thinking that there is a real reason, not an arbitrary choice but I’ll find out the true answer and get back to you as soon as I can.

 

[Yooper]

i use 60:40 sodiumotash or thereabouts.

Yes, then of course that is a hybrid. I use a mix of them too, sometimes for solid soap I’ll do 90:10 as it helps tallow bars lather better. And for liquid soaps, I’ll do 5:95 as it helps the liquid soap have some body. So I do like the flexibility too.

 

[Yooper]

I spoke with the developer as well as dug deep into my books and resources, and found that there are 0 resources that recommend soaping above even a 3:1 ratio, but find that 3.5 is “acceptable”. It has to do with the dilution of the lye in that much water and the activity of the lye is subdued. In making solid soap, the soap is unlikely to form a stable emulsion, but for shaving soap and liquid soap it is fine. With higher liquid:lye ratio a stable emulsion of even liquid soap paste is unlikely. Of course, we are talking about hot process, not cold process where even 3.5:1 is unlikely to work at all. Hot process is commonly done at up to 3:1 but can go a bit higher. Because of this, we limit the ratio to 3.5:1.

Since you have done it and it works for you, it may require a workaround in our calculator (or any calculator). And that is to add the extra liquid in the ‘liquid’ area of the calculator, and not discount the liquid in the water:lye area at all, and make notes in the ‘note area’.

 

[ChrissieM]

I purchased the original recipe from Amanda. I have used it since 2017 or early 2018. This is the recipe I had in my files with soapmakingfriend.com in 2020 when I entered it. Back then, you can see that the recipe had 5:1 water to lye ratio. I think I used a different soap calculator when I started using the recipe - https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/recipes/12612.orig-shave-soap.

I guess I'll have to calculate manually if I need to tweak it. Thanks for your responses.

By the way, just wondering why I am showing as new member when I joined in 2019. Not really that important but just curious. Thanks

 

[Yooper]

I don’t see ‘new member’ anywhere- but maybe that means new to the forum(?).

 

[ChrissieM]

Here's a screenshot. Where it says New Member. I posted a questions sometime in October last year I think about giving me negative numbers, and then a week or so ago with the liquid being so low. I still haven't received a response to both questions. On the last question, I attached the image of the recipe as requested.

Doesn't matter with the New Member thing. As I said it is not that important, just curious.

Thank you.

 

[ChrissieM]

sorry, forgot the screenshot:

 

[Yooper]

Here's a screenshot. Where it says New Member. I posted a questions sometime in October last year I think about giving me negative numbers, and then a week or so ago with the liquid being so low. I still haven't received a response to both questions. On the last question, I attached the image of the recipe as requested.

Doesn't matter with the New Member thing. As I said it is not that important, just curious.

Thank you.

I’m sorry I didn’t see your questions- I’m usually pretty up on posts and questions. However, we had a long conversation about the liquid;lye ratio, so I didn’t realize there were more questions to answer on that topic.

What other questions can I answer for you?