Additives as % Of Liquid with Masterbatched Lye

[wolfsbaneandlavender]

I was making a recipe today that uses a seawater solution for the liquid; I wanted to enter the salt and baking soda as a percent of liquid so I could scale it to my mold. However, I noticed the amount it told me to add was too low, and realized that was happening because I am using the Master Batch Lye toggle; it seems to be calculating based only on the additional liquid being added.

It'd be great if it also counted the water in the premixed lye solution since the calculations for my seawater are based on all the liquid, not just the amount I add afterward to get my proper liquid:lye ratio.

 

[Yooper]

I’m not understanding- you were adding salt and baking soda to the water, and as a % of the liquid? But you were adding, say, an additional 5 ounces of water and it wasn’t counting the water that was already added as part of the masterbatched lye water? So, as an example, you had 6 ounces of masterbatched liquid, and 4 ounces of additional water, and it only accounted for 6 ounces of it?

By any chance is your masterbatch 50/50? I wonder if it’s because lye needs it’s weight in liquid to dissolve. I’ll check into this.

For using the additional liquid, it should add the total together as it is part of the amount of liquid/weight in the batch. Can you give me a link into this recipe so I can see how it’s working those numbers?

 

[wolfsbaneandlavender]

I'm bad at math lol but I *think* it's calculating it based on the 'liquid required' total. Here are a couple screenshots showing how the amount of salt and baking soda I was being told to use changed based on if I had masterbatch turned on or not. My masterbatch solution is indeed 50/50.

Here is the recipe: https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/recipes/83654.znsc-bastille

 

[Yooper]

Can you try it with a different goal? Like % of oils, etc? To compare the differences. Normally things like salt are added ppo (per ounce of oils), but I don’t know about baking soda-

Which brings up another question. Why the baking soda? It increases pH and you’re already at 0% superfat. I’m just really confused as to why baking soda is in here, and if we need to add something to adjust the calculator like we do for vinegar (which is acidic). I assume this is a soap for clothes or cleaning, but a 0 superfat with adding alkalinity surprises me if added to the lye/water (which creates a chemical reaction. I think if added in a hot process later it would create some benefit. But this is a new idea for me, so that’s why I’m asking!

 

[wolfsbaneandlavender]

Maybe there's a better way to do what I'm trying to do? Square peg round hole...

The original recipe I'm trying to recalculate uses a 'faux seawater' in place of regular water for the lye solution, and the salt and baking soda are both part of that water solution. I hate mixing lye so I masterbatch as much as possible, but in the end am hoping to end up with the same amount of baking soda, salt, and water as I would if I were to not be using my masterbatched lye as well.

This is the original thread on the soap I want to make if it helps at all

Zany's no slime castile

This is a tried and true recipe that I've made several times. Others have tried it with excellent results. Be sure to keep the bar high and dry between uses by using a soap-saver-type soap dish. Tweak to your heart's delight! (Like, do I even need to say that?! :D) ZANY’S NO SLIME OLIVE OIL...

www.soapmakingforum.com

This thread has the math I'm trying to automate

ZNSC with master-batched lye

Has anyone here done the maths for making the faux sea water for ZNSC to be used with master-batched 50% lye solution, and shooting for an overall 33% lye solution? I honestly don't want to make up a special batch of lye solution just for a couple batches of soap. My first thought was to halve...

www.soapmakingforum.com

This is why I think I want the % of liquid rather than the % of oils (which I do use for most of my other additives). It just doesn't make sense to me that % of liquid doesn't account for *all* the liquid.

 

[Yooper]

That makes sense- but remember that lye needs an equal (or more) amount of water to dissolve. So adding salt and baking soda means that you need more water to dissolve those, as the water is around in the masterbatch. So that’s why it uses the additional water to use for those additives to the water.

that recipe mentions castor oil, but there is none in the recipe. It’s also 0% superfat which seems odd (maybe the castor oil is added later for SF?). But the issue here is masterbatching. Remember, you can’t dissolve the salt or baking soda into the masterbatched lye, and that’s why the calculation can’t give you more as it won’t dissolve in a 1;1 masterbatch- the lye needs to have a 1:1 ratio to dissolve. Then any leftover liquid in your recipe can be used to dissolve the salt and baking soda. This recipe is using the 1:7:1 water to dissolve the salt and baking soda, and then adding the lye to the solution, not masterbatching and attempting to calculate the addition.

In other words……I don’t think masterbatching the lye and water will work in this case. You want to dissolve the baking soda and salt thoroughly before adding the lye, and you want to have enough liquid to dissolve the lye- so in this case I think a standard measurement (in grams, teaspoons, whatever) is the only way to make sure that this can happen with basking soda and salt. Then, the lye is added and stirred to dissolved. The software can’t work out the additions to the liquid as % of liquids since the first water addition is ‘used up’ by the lye.

 

[wolfsbaneandlavender]

The coconut and castor oil are mentioned a little further in as a variant My understanding is that the 0% SF is to combat the sliminess that the high olive oil content can cause.

For the percentages though, “%of liquids” isn’t accurate if it’s not actually accounting for the total amount of liquid even if some of it is used to desolve the lye. Regardless of when the lye is added, there is the same amount of total water going into the recipe, so additives calculated based on that should be the same with or without master batch being selected. It could be something that doesn’t need to be dissolved, or could even be dissolved in the oils as other examples.

It already knows how much water is in the master batch since it uses that to calculate how much more water is needed, so to my admittedly not-programmer mind, it feels like it should be able to also use that to calculate an additive. I suspect anyone weird enough like me to be wanting to use master batched lye *and* measure something as a percentage of liquids knows they have to be careful how they actually mix them.

Either way this is a great conversation, thanks for your time

 

[Yooper]

Yes, but you cannot add the salt and baking soda to the lye water- and in this case (and others with additives) you add the salt and baking soda to the water. The calculator knows that the masterbatch is ‘done’ so to speak, so cannot accommodate it. Unfortunately, the only workaround is the only way to do it, and that is to do the recipe as a regular recipe with no masterbatched lye, and see the amount of those additives and save that by noting it, then switch it to masterbatched and add those additives with the correct measurement. That recipe doesn’t account for masterbatched lye, but that is the science of it. Since it’s already 1:1, nothing else will dissolve in it, so you’ll dissolve the additions in the additional water. The additional liquid is calcuated, but since you can’t add to the masterbatched lye, that is not.